The Indian poet Varavara Rao was arrested and jailed in the aftermath of a violent protest at Bhima Koregan on 1 January 2018. Alongside ten other defendants, Varavara Rao denies all the charges raised against him. The elderly poet contracted COVID-19 while in prison and has been over two years in jail under appalling conditions without trial.

‘In India,’ Arundhati Roy wrote in 2002, ‘if you are a butcher or a genocidist who happens to be a politician, you have every reason to be optimistic.’ Roy was referring to Narendra Modi, then the head of the state of Gujarat, and now (proving Roy’s characteristic clarity of political perception prophetic) the national prime minister. Modi was implicated in the notorious 2002 Gujarat riots, in which at least 1,000 Muslims were killed.

Modi’s leadership of India since 2014 has realised on a new scale violent doctrines of Hindu nationalism and caste supremacy, alongside the corporate- and elite-oriented evisceration of the public sphere that Roy could discern in outline in the form of Modi the administrator and pogromist years ago. Modi is head of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), the parliamentary wing of an extreme Hindu nationalist mass movement, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), considered by historian Benjamin Zachariah to be ‘the longest running fascist organization in the world.’

Today in India, nine people own as much as the combined wealth of the bottom five hundred million; small farmers unable to survive in competition with agri-giants like Monsanto are killing themselves in their tens of thousands every year; eight million indigenous peoples currently face forced displacement from their lands and forests by order of the Supreme Court; Muslims are demonised by the State and targeted in street-level, paramilitary violence by Hindu nationalists; while Kashmir remains under increasingly trigger-happy military occupation. Capitalism in India (as elsewhere) is nourished and sustained by a combination of state-sanctioned terror, environmental and nationalist violence, and a versatile discourse (developed by the BJP) of toxic and divisive patriotism. And that was before the catastrophe of Covid-19 arrived, presenting the opportunity, as Naomi Klein has observed, for a ‘pandemic shock doctrine‘ to be implemented.

Modi’s reign has also witnessed the dogged persecution of artists and intellectuals considered to be enemies of the BJP programme. Eighty-one-year-old Marxist and Telugu-language poet, Varavara Rao, described by supporters as now suffering from ‘deteriorating’ health and acutely vulnerable to the Coronavirus, has been imprisoned without bail since 2018: ostensibly on the charge of conspiring to assassinate Modi himself, the embodiment (as ‘strongman’) of the Hindu nationalist state in all its free-market extremism and sectarian thuggery, its vitriol and paranoia. As is true of Kurdish and Palestinian artists incarcerated for the supposedly seditious content of their works by self-described democracies – Turkey and Israel, respectively – Rao is emblematic of an art that by its very existence speaks truth to power, and, like a human mirror, exposes the ugliness and brutality by which that power maintains itself in reality. He is a poet who refuses to cater to the self-glorifying, chauvinist fantasies of national destiny that the leaders of the Indian state concoct.

Yelling against

The blood stained hands

Should be at the top of your voice

Rao declares in one of his most resonant poems, which goes on to suggest that the artist who can:

Come out with plain speak

That touches the heart

… will have paid some service to the human project. For Rao, crucially, this project is intrinsically revolutionary and emancipatory, as his own founding of Virasam – the Revolutionary Writers Association and his lifelong championing of the rights (as well as the languages and traditions) of indigenous and other minority populations evidences. Rao, in his poetry as in his politics, represents exactly that diversity and cultural openness, that outward-looking creativity and commitment to connection and understanding, that is the antithesis of the BJP (and other similar authoritarian, free-market and proto-fascist forces across the globe). Indeed, his poems and example may be seen as testament to, as alternative expressions of, the spirit of collective good and mutual aid that has been adopted in action by volunteers in the state of Kerala, who in cooperation with Communist and Leftist organisations have self-organised for the welfare and safety of their communities throughout the period of the pandemic. Rao’s work has always anticipated and affirmed the radical, human potential that the collective action of these volunteers has now made manifest.

Likewise, in their own way the international campaigns in solidarity with Rao demonstrate the possibility that such values exist, and that such modes of collective organisation as those above may be replicated, in other communities and situations around the globe. Including here, in Ireland, where the current centre-right coalition government has already indicated its disdain for the security and rights of low-wage, essential workers, hinting at the further defunding of the public (including culture, Irish-language, and heritage) sphere. The leader of the Irish Green Party sleeps, while the increasingly visible racism, fascism, and homophobia of the grassroots far-right threatens to normalise the idea of bigoted whiteness as the mark of ‘Irish’ identity. Against such developments, communities on the ground, artists among them, should be unafraid of learning from Rao’s work and “Yelling […] at the top of your voice” for inclusivity, mutuality, and radical democracy as the basis of our life in common.

The biography of Varavara Rao

For a full account of the life, poetry and activism of Varavara Rao, please read The Making of Varvara Rao by his nephew, N. Venugopal.

Gabriel Rosenstock speaks out on behalf of Varavara Rao

Such themes also animate Gabriel Rosenstock’s dual-language poem of support for Rao.

LITIR CHUN NA hINDIA

(An file Teileagúise Varavara Rao i bpríosún)

A India!

An mbíonn meangadh ar bhéal an bhandé Saraswati

Nuair a chuireann tú do chuid filí i bpríosún

Speabhraídí orthu, buailte ag an gCóivid,

Ina suí i lochán fuail?

A India!

An sásta atá Saraswati?

       A Varavara Rao, seolaim chugat na briathra seo

       Is mé ag súil go lonróidís

        Ina ndeannach scaipthe

        A mbéarfaidh ga gréine orthu –

A India! An ligeann tú do sholas na camhaoire

Teacht isteach ina chillín gan cuardach a dhéanamh air

Nó solas na gealaí

Nó na réaltaí i gcéin?

A India!

Éagann meangadh beannaitheach Saraswati Ar a béal

LETTER TO INDIA

(On the imprisonment of Telugu-language poet Varavara Rao)

India!

Does the goddess Saraswati smile

When you imprison your poets

When, Covid-stricken, they hallucinate

Sitting in a puddle of urine?

India!

Is Saraswati pleased?

       Varavara Rao, I send you these words

       That they might glow

       Like scattered motes of dust

       Caught in fleeting sunshine –

Oh, India! Do you allow

The light of dawn to enter his cell without being searched

Or the light of the moon

Or distant stars?

India!

Saraswati’s beatific smile Is fading on her lips.

Gabriel Rosenstock is a poet, haikuist, tankaist and activist who works primarily in the Irish language. Curator of the Irish writers’ contribution to the Kerala Literature Festival 2018, where Ireland was the guest of honour, Gabriel has strong links to India’s community of writers, poets and activists.

He has put out this call to individuals, groups and schools:

It would be a consolation, indeed, if people took a few minutes today to write to him – whatever your walk of life. Send him a letter, a poem, a gift, a book – anything. If you know of any group –  a school, for instance – that would send him a ‘Get Well’ card, such a gesture would be very helpful as he is being held in conditions which have worsened his many ailments.

The address to write to is: P Varavara Rao, Under-Trial prisoner, MB-238, Cell No. 2, Circle No. HP-I, Taloja Centra Prison, Kharghar, Navi Mumbai, Maharashtra, India – 410210.

One of the other Irish writers who participated at the Kerala Literature Festival in 2018 is Independent Left’s Conor Kostick. Conor is the Disputes Officer of the Irish Writers Union and raised the case of Varavara Rao at the executive as a clear example of state persecution against a poet, one that deserves a response from the whole community of Irish writers, both to condemn the treatment of Varavara Rao and to express solidarity with the embattled writer.

The Irish Writers Union joined with the Board of Scottish PEN, Wales PEN Cymru, PEN America, PEN Canada and others in signing an appeal for the urgent release of Varavara Rao.

Pen International and Varavara Rao

Pen International’s writers in prison committee has been active on Varavara Rao’s case. 

They plan to publish Gabriel Rosenstock’s poem Letter to India, which has also been translated into Greek.

ΕΠΙΣΤΟΛΗ ΣΤΗΝ ΙΝΔΙΑ

(Για τη φυλάκιση του ποιητή της γλώσσας

Τέλουγκου, Βάραβάρα Ράο)

Ινδία!

Χαμογελά η θεά Σαράσβατι

Όταν φυλακίζεις τους ποιητές σου

Όταν, γεμάτοι Covid, έχουν παραισθήσεις

Καθισμένοι σε μια λίμνη από ούρα;

Ινδία!

Είναι η Σαράσβατι ευχαριστημένη;

Βάραβάρα Ράο, σου στέλνω αυτές τις λέξεις

που μπορεί να λάμψουν

σαν σκόρπιοι κόκκοι άμμου

στο φευγαλέo φως του ήλιου –

Ω, Ινδία! Aφήνεις

Το φως της αυγής να μπει στο κελί του χωρίς να

ελεγχθεί

Ή το φως της σελήνης

Ή τα μακρινά άστρα;

Ινδία!

Το μακάριο χαμόγελο της Σαράσβατι

Σβήνει στα χείλη της.

(Greek version: Sarah Thilykou)

Sarah Thilykou is a poet, editor and translator from Thessaloniki, Greece.

By Shane McNally

On 7 June 2020 the statue of Edward Colston in Bristol was toppled and then thrown in the harbour by Black Lives Matter Protestors

Black Lives Matter.

A call for something so simple such as the basic right to live should not need to be the cry of a movement in the twenty-first century, but it is. Black lives are treated as lesser lives: from the ingrained racism of individuals frothing at the mouth to insist ‘all lives matter’, to state sanctioned violence that kneels on the neck of the black body. Black lives are paid less, provided with less opportunity, are jailed more and die in greater numbers through austerity and marginalisation. The struggle of BLM is one of class and identity, the latter under assault by the multifaceted culture war that is contemporary identity politics. The former is attacked by the right in their targeting of class consciousness and solidarity on every front that is opened up.

The latest being statues.

Should Statues Be Pulled Down?

‘We view the past, and achieve our understanding of the past, only through the eyes of the present.’ Socialist historian, E.H. Carr.

Statues resonate as symbols of power and that which must be eulogised: what and who must be ingrained in memory. The function of statues is not just to remember a name but an action. And as statues have typically been raised by people who are carrying out their own acts of exploitation and injustice, they often obscure the past while preserving power structures in the present. The toppling of the Edward Colston Statue into the very harbour slave ships docked was an act of symbolism as much as one of anger. Colston was heavily involved in the slave trade, but the Victorian elite of Bristol who erected the statue in 1895 chose to hide this in favour of emphasising his philanthropy later in life. Nothing was mentioned of tens of thousands of slaves who died before they even reached American shores. The British Empire at this point in the late nineteenth century was reaching its apogee. The raising of such statues does not happen outside of history, but is inherently part of constructing the past.

As Ash Sarkar said on Novara’s #TyskySour, ‘statues don’t go up by accident’, they need to be maintained’ and in doing so they have a symbolic importance as well as a narrative.

‘Rhodes Must Fall’ was a campaign decades in the making, directed at another colonialist who had been elevated in the present. Cecil Rhodes was the individual whom Rhodesia was named after. He was ingrained into the fabric of colonial history and venerated in the centres of empires. The Rhodes Scholarship is one the most esteemed international scholarships. His name is embedded in the educational hierarchy. His statue and the scholarship carried out in his name, however, are attached to a man who believed in the greatness of the British Empire. Rhodes was a colonist and a racist who believed, ‘we are the first race in the world’.

It has taken decades for Rhodes to fall, but now as a result of protests stemming from the killing of George Floyd, Oriel College, Cambridge will decide by the end of this year the fate of the statue, crucially in consultation with the ‘Rhodes Must Fall’ group. Yet there are powerful figures on the opposite side. As recently as 2016, there were warnings from donors to Oriel College that if the statue was removed, up to £100 million in funding would be withdrawn. The rallying cry of these millionaires is that, ‘they are attempting to re-write history’. The contrary is true, the presence of Rhodes’ statue is a continual re-writing of history; it is a symbol of a patriarchal figure who bestows a prestigious scholarship on a select few, obfuscating the source of his wealth: extraction through colonialism.

As of 2013 at Rhodes University in South Africa, ‘83 percent of senior management staff remain white and 77 percent of “professionally qualified staff,” a category that includes academic teaching staff, are white.’ This is where the Rhodes Must Fall movement began, in an institution to this day that is hierarchically white. Rhodes’ message of ‘the first race’ in the world is perpetuated through social elites in the very lands stolen by the British Empire. The presence of his statue remaining legitimises this, as it silently articulates the message that we must look up to him and remember him as benevolent and a man to be deferred to. His statue is a symbol of oppression that continues to colonise the mind as well as placing the figure of Rhodes centre stage in some the most prestigious universities in the world.

Why is the Seán Russell statue, Dublin, being targeted?

Closer to home the ‘statue debate’ has opened up some new (old fronts) from bad faith actors. One such is the controversial statue of Seán Russell, a statue whose presence has been much debated in the past and which has a history of being defaced. The character of Russell is a complicated one: a revolutionary of 1916 who took charge of the IRA in the thirties; a decade that saw the rise of the Blue Shirts, a Conservative Catholic state, and a renewed violent push from the IRA. Russell sought assistance from both the Soviets and the Nazis in the thirties and died on a Nazi U-Boat returning from Germany. It is widely noted that Russell was a military man first and foremost and focused on Irish liberation. Historians agree on this. Russell was emblematic of an aspect of Ireland in the thirties and his statue that has always been a conduit for contemporary political narrative. The latest being Sinn Féin bashing from Fine Gael councillors. A new old story.

‘Russell’s statue has been over the decades since its unveiling, been targeted by both the left and the right, being accused of both communism and fascism.’ A quote from the National Graves Association representative sums up this contested history concisely:

In recent years, there have been repeated attempts by some, in both, the Irish Media and establishment, to further this image of Seán Russell as a fascist. This is in fact a good example of revisionism at work. To criticise Russell as a Republican is fair enough if that’s one’s viewpoint. But false character assassination is entirely a different matter. That is both politically and historically, dishonest, immoral and underhanded. This is particularly the case when it comes from members of political groups with far, far closer historical links to Ireland’s fascists than any of Seán Russell’s comrades.

There is a debate to be had about statues in Ireland as a whole, but the controversy over the Russell statue is awash with bad faith arguments by Fine Gael to break up the front that has opened up with the international movement against symbols of racism and oppression. This only serves to dilute the reason for the questions being asked: statues are being torn down to put history to right, for restitution, for justice. A lot of the answers to these questions will not be binary, but complicated, such as statues of individuals involved in the founding of the state.

State Racism in Ireland is evident in Direct Provision

Ireland has statues and areas named after colonial oppressors; a bloody and messy foundation to the state that is rarely, if ever, brought up unless it is to muddy a contemporary political argument. What is also lost in all of this is that we actively oppress people who have migrated to this state on a daily basis through Direct Provision. Direct Provision is how we mistreat people who are migrants and those seeking asylum in contemporary Ireland. We don’t have statues of Colston, but corporate symbols.

History is certainly not binary and there are problematic individuals whose legacy liberals will often defend, using phrases about context and different times. That doesn’t answer why they need to be immortalized in prestigious institutions and centres of towns. What does begin to answer why these statutes take centre stage is that there are public spaces dominated by some of the most horrific tyrants in history. Figures such as King Leopold II, responsible for millions of deaths in the Belgian Congo in the most brutal and comprehensive extraction of resources, who has memorials and statues all over today’s Belgium. The current Black Lives Matter protests have spread and are turning the tide and Leopold’s statues being torn down. Every statue torn down or questioned is a strike against the layers of injustice that are present in everyday life, from tyrant to state-revered slave owner.

No statues of tyrants should be anywhere near public spaces. Tear down spaces and symbols of oppression and create spaces for all of the stories and lives that have been obliterated in the name of empire and capital. They offer nothing other than the legitimisation of past and current oppression. The function they serve is not for historical purposes, but for the retention of hierarchy and class division.

The most honest and justified action was dumping Colston in the river. That was making history and restoring narrative power to the oppressed. True solidarity with this movement in Ireland would be to pull down our own racist institutions. Statues are focal points of contested history, an ongoing battle in the class war.

An interview with Paige Graffunder, Seattle 3 June 2020

Paige Graffunder is an activist in Seattle, involved with Revolution Books and Black Lives Matter Seattle.

For the benefit of socialists in Ireland, where many of us see events through official news channels, which never drill down enough, I’m hoping you can give our readers some insight into what’s happening on the ground. Maybe you could start by telling us who is actually organising the protests?

There’s a bunch of groups. Unfortunately, a lot of activism in the United States kinda exists in a ‘diaspora’, because as soon as you get too many people you immediately get labelled a terrorist organisation because we have a fascist in office. A lot of it has been Black Lives Matter, because Black Lives Matter is actually big enough in Seattle that they actually have an office. In general, it’s not really an organisation, it’s an ideal.

The primary motivation of Black Lives Matter is equality and equity for the black community: stop getting killed by a militarised police force; achieve more equal statistics for punishment on crime (63% of all violent crime in this country is committed by white people, yet 70% of the prison community is black). That’s their main focus but through that they’ve built this community system where everybody takes care of each other.

So essentially, they’ve built socialism. Right now, for example, I’ve just got back from dropping off field medi-kits and water bottles and a bunch of other stuff to their office in Central District. They just provide so much to the community by way of support. Anyone who can help, does help.

And is Black Lives Matter aligned to the Democrats?

No, not at all, the Democrats hate us too. We’re leftist, without any particular political affiliation.

Roughly how many organisers would Black Lives Matter have in Seattle?

Personally, I know about twenty-five organisers for these particular protests but there are so many. And again, who is an organiser depends on who is stepping up to the plate. There’s no hierarchical leadership; it’s not really an organisation. It’s a community effort.

Presumably people who’ve never done anything like this before are getting involved.

Absolutely. As soon as they saw the first night of protest here (30 May 2020) in Seattle, which went very badly. There was four hours of totally peaceful protest; there was seven feet between the protesters and a line of police. The protesters were sitting down. Then, with literally no warning, there was no command, they just shot tear gas into it for no reason. That first protest was probably around a thousand people, but after seeing what happened, last night (2 June 2020) there were eight thousand people on the street. Bear in mind we had called May Day off – historically, Seattle has a riot every first of May, laughs – we cancelled that because of the coronavirus. But this is bringing people onto the street despite the virus.

Is there much of a socialist presence in these protests?

Here there is. We have the People’s Party and Socialist Alternative, both have a big membership and strong turnout. Councillor Kshama Sawant, has been out every day, she stays every day, which is awesome.

I was wondering whether this movement has been so explosive, not just because of the continual murders of black people by the police, but also because the black community has suffered more heavily from the virus, such as by not having access to the same level of health care?

Here’s the thing. This is one of those straw that breaks the camel’s back moments. The murder of George Floyd was awful and here, literally the week before, we had cops wrongfully and mistakenly enter an apartment building and kill a woman while she slept. This happens all the time. Plus, on top of five hundred years of slavery, segregation and oppression and coronavirus, the American medical system kills more black people than cops do. Their problems go largely ignored; they just don’t receive the same level of care.

Looking at this movement from the other side: are the authorities (with Trump at their head) going to regain control of the situation?

No. I don’t think so, because every time they escalate, it just draws more people. Nobody paid attention to the curfew. The curfew in Seattle is 7pm, although I need to explain more about this. The curfew does not apply if the protest is designated ‘peaceful’ because that would be a violation of First Amendment rights.

There’s a lot of coverage of violence here. To what extent is that the work of protesters?

It’s not, not initially. And actually, they are caught on video and most of the time it’s undercover cops.

What steps are activists taking to try to cut down on arson and looting?

Seattle hasn’t had any arson around the actual protests since the first day. Protesters are not breaking into buildings or anything like that. Seattle is very good about listening; our whole thing here is anti-racist, anti-fascist, only Seattle. So the city is very good at listening to who needs to be listened to. When black organisers and people of colour say, ‘no, we’re not doing this and if you see someone doing this you must stop them,’ people listen.

Can we just focus on that? Because it seems to be a really important issue. Who has the authority to say to the demonstrators, ‘no, we’re not doing this’? And how do they communicate?

There’s not like a figurehead. There have been two people recently who have gotten in front of a megaphone more than others, but there have been some questions about their motives to do that because they have been unreasonably willing to listen to empty promises. The mayor, Jenny Durkan, came out yesterday and spoke to these two in front of the protest and they were like, ‘oh yeah we don’t want to see it get violent’. And the crowd were responding, ‘well then, deauthorise the use of CS gas, of tear gas.’ The Mayor turned around and she literally ran.

And when the crowd were, ‘fuck the police’, one of these ‘leaders’ told them to ‘shut the fuck up.’ So who is leading changes day by day and most of this information gets disseminated by social media. Enough people said, ‘listen to the black leaders,’ and now people listen. And they are listening to women, ninety-percent of the ‘leaders’ here are women.

And it’s really funny watching people get a crash course in revolutionary practices. I know more people who know how to de-arrest now than I ever did. I’m pretty sure that every housewife on my block knows how to put out a CS canister and what to do if you’re hit by a rubber bullet. I’ve personally instructed about a hundred people on how to do field sutures.

Please tell us more about your day, what’s your day like in this crisis?

I’m extremely medically fragile, so me being on the street is not a thing. I help in other ways. I’ve been making about a hundred to two hundred med kits every day. A wash kit, gauze, bandages, a field kit with sutures.

A friend and I built a script that takes all of the feeds from the traffic cameras. We can isolate certain blocks and streets so we can keep an eye on things aerially. Also we monitor the public scanner of the police. The cops here are covering their badge numbers and their body cameras are turned off. The National Guard were wearing their helmet cameras the first days they were here. They aren’t any more. So there’s not accountability. It’s our live feeds and traffic cameras against what they say and unfortunately, historically, that has gone very badly for us.

Is there anything you’ve seen that we wouldn’t have been able to view via our main TV channels?

There’s so much that you haven’t seen. For example in New York, cops have been mowing through the crowds as by orders of NYPD. I’ll share an audio file from a police scanner, of New York cops being authorised to drive through the crowd (press the image below).

And here’s a picture I took last night of a kid, probably sixteen or seventeen confronting some fifty cops. Sorry it’s not that clear because the camera was covered with CS gas.

What’s happening with the activists who have been arrested?

Since Friday everyone who has been arrested has stayed in jail for the most part. They’ve closed the courthouse down and they are not holding bail hearings for non-violent offenders, so essentially people are being held, there’s nothing. Seattle doesn’t have a large jail so in the age of coronavirus, that’s really terrifying. We instruct everyone to write telephone numbers on their bodies, legal defence funds, but a lot of legal advocates are unable to get access to the courthouse. There are thousands of legal aid funds and people wanting to show solidarity with us can donate to https://bailfunds.github.io/.

Looking back at the late 60s, early 70s, the radicalised black movement, especially in the form of the Black Panthers, took bearing arms against the state about as far it could and ultimately got marginalised. How can it win this time?

Really, the Black Panthers were radicalised by the state. The Black Panthers started the free lunch programme. Everyone has this image of the Black Panthers running around with guns all the time, being intimidating. It’s not actually the case. The Black Panthers being armed was a response to the police state.

Yes, but if that happens again now, I think it will only ever be a small minority taking up arms and that it will lose.

I don’t think that’s actually the case. Even here, with our two socialist council members and $16 minimum wage, the logo for Seattle is ‘coffee and guns’. We have Starbucks and guns. Even here, if they start firing with live rounds instead of rubber bullets, well there’s more of us than there are of them. What are 700 cops going to do against ten thousand armed people?

Well, if the ten thousand are prepared to take over, that’s fine. My concern is that the strength of the spontaneity is also a weakness. What’s to stop it degenerating into something like the Weathermen?

Fair, but there is no way to overthrow something, to end a regime, without violence. Do you think the French walked up to Versailles and said, ‘pardon’?

I think there has to be a mass movement behind a successful insurrection. I’m trying to get a clearer picture of this movement. I’d just be worried that Trump will escalate the crisis and there will be saboteurs trying to create horrific examples so as to have a backlash. And in the past I feel that the American elite have learned to isolate radicals in this way. But your feeling is that if they start using live rounds the movement will hit back. Are we on the edge of such a scenario?

Any good will that the cops still have, if they take live fire at United States citizens, especially at the behest of the military and the national guard: it’s gone. Literally half of what Trump said yesterday was about using the Insurrection Act to deploy the regular military, not just the National Guard, into states without the permission of governors.

If that triggered a popular response and your ten thousand people swept away the police, what would happen next?

That’s a really hard question because of the diaspora of leadership. That becomes a problem because nobody has a single point to rally around. Seattle, however, has a pretty remarkable city council and more than normal activity when it comes to civic duty. Our voting is very high. So I can’t imagine that the city officials – who, with the exception of the Mayor, have been largely on the side of the protestors – would allow confusion to go on for too long.

What would victory look like? What would the protestors consider a victory?

Defunding of the police and a complete start from scratch. The cops in the US are descended from slave catchers and they haven’t stopped that. Enforcing a racist system makes you a racist. Without a complete dismantling of the system and rebuilding, this doesn’t get solved. I’m sure that’s not the goal for everyone but it is the goal for the majority of the people.

So jailing the cops concerned isn’t enough?

No, it’s too late for that. If they had done that at the beginning, most likely this wouldn’t be happening. But they didn’t.

They waited until that cop’s life was in danger and then they arrested him to protected him. His wife left him to protect his assets. It’s so transparent that it’s almost laughable. Here, we were watching the protests last night and I had two live feeds, one from the ground and one from the air, plus the traffic cameras and every crowd member was staring down the cops, shouting, ‘you protect property, we protect the people.’

What’s going to happen next?

There’s big protests and there’s always little ones too. Today they are holding a specific rally to defund the police.

Are the police going to lose?

I honestly can’t imagine this going any other way. It’s going to escalate until the police are gone and it just gets worse every night they take unprovoked action, which is every night. And every day there’s more people on the protests.